Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/21/2002 01:15 PM House TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       February 21, 2002                                                                                        
                           1:15 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Scott Ogan                                                                                                       
Representative Drew Scalzi                                                                                                      
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 397                                                                                                              
"An Act exempting a person driving a snowmobile from driver                                                                     
licensing requirements."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 397(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
BILL: HB 397                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:SNOWMOBILE DRIVERS' LICENSING EXEMPTION                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/08/02     2183       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/08/02     2183       (H)        TRA, STA                                                                                     
02/21/02                (H)        TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 24                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT:   As  committee aide,  presented  HB 397  on                                                               
behalf of the House Transportation Standing Committee sponsor.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JIM JANSEN (ph)                                                                                                                 
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 397.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
NANCY HILLSTRAND                                                                                                                
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
Homer, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 397 and said  that it could                                                               
be used to educate youth on safety.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JACK CAMPBELL, Mat-Su Motor Mushers                                                                                             
1830 East Parks Highway                                                                                                         
Wasilla, Alaska  99654                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 397.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT WEBER                                                                                                                    
P.O. Box 873244                                                                                                                 
Wasilla, Alaska  99687                                                                                                          
POSITION   STATEMENT:     Testified   on  HB   397  saying   that                                                               
snowmachines and cars do not mix.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
NANCY WEBB, Assembly Member                                                                                                     
Fairbanks Northstar Borough                                                                                                     
P.O. Box 71267                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on  HB 397, expressing her wish to                                                               
curb some  of the behavior of  the few snowmachine users  who are                                                               
ruining it for the many.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MARK MEW, Deputy Chief                                                                                                          
Anchorage Police Department                                                                                                     
Municipality of Anchorage                                                                                                       
4501 South Bragaw Street                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska  99507                                                                                                        
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  on  HB  397  on behalf  of  the                                                               
Anchorage  Police Department,  saying that  he did  not want  the                                                               
wrong message to be sent by the bill.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
STAN JUSTICE                                                                                                                    
1750 Reed Circle                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified on HB 397 that  something must be                                                               
done  to   reduce  the  number   of  deaths  and   injuries  from                                                               
snowmachines.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ROGER BURNS                                                                                                                     
2559 Dale Road                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 397.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PAT CARLSON                                                                                                                     
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 397.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MARY MARSHBURN, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV)                                                                                                
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
3300B Fairbanks Street                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 397 on behalf of the DMV.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MARK WILKE, Treasurer                                                                                                           
Juneau Snowmobile Club                                                                                                          
4300 University Drive                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified in  support of  safety education                                                               
and HB 397.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM STRATTON, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation                                                                                        
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
550 West 7th Avenue, Suite 1380                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-3561                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on  behalf of the department on HB
397, saying  he had  no problem  with the  original bill  but had                                                               
some reservations about Version C.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-3, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  VIC  KOHRING  called  the  House  Transportation  Standing                                                               
Committee meeting to  order at 1:15 p.m.  Members  present at the                                                               
call  to   order  were  Representatives  Ogan,   Scalzi,  Wilson,                                                               
Kapsner, Masek,  and Kohring.  Representative  Kookesh joined the                                                               
meeting as it was in progress.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 397-SNOWMOBILE DRIVERS' LICENSING EXEMPTION                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR  KOHRING said  that  the matter  before  the committee  was                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  397,  "An  Act exempting  a  person  driving  a                                                               
snowmobile  from driver  licensing  requirements."   He said  the                                                               
bill  was   the  result  of   the  "discovery"  of   a  licensing                                                               
requirement that  many people did not  know about.  He  said that                                                               
he did  not feel that  it is  a necessary government  function to                                                               
require a  driver's license to operate  a snowmachine, especially                                                               
in rural areas of the state.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 030                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MIKE KRIEBER,  Staff to Representative Vic  Kohring, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature,   presented  HB   397   on  behalf   of  the   House                                                               
Transportation  Standing   Committee,  sponsor.    He   said  the                                                               
Department  of Transportation  [and  Public Facilities]  (DOT&PF)                                                               
presented its draft version of  the "Winter Transportation Study"                                                               
in the previous year.  The  study was concerned with the off-road                                                               
uses of vehicles  - primarily snowmachines.  Mr.  Krieber said it                                                               
was begun  as a micro-study,  focused on the Fairbanks  area, and                                                               
dealt  primarily  with  snowmachine   use.    The  study  quickly                                                               
expanded to a statewide scope.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER told  the committee that the study  found many people                                                               
were  not well  apprised of  the  law on  the topic.   The  study                                                               
states that snowmachine operators are  required to have a vehicle                                                               
driver's license  to operate on  roadways, as well as  any public                                                               
properties, including lands and waters.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  said that  there was  additional testimony  heard in                                                               
the previous  year for  other bills  relating to  airplane safety                                                               
equipment.   It  became  evident that  operation  of an  airplane                                                               
requires a  driver's license  in addition  to a  pilot's license.                                                               
Mr.  Krieber made  reference to  a recent  headline story  in the                                                               
Anchorage Daily News that said  a person needs a driver's license                                                             
to  drive a  snowmachine.   Mr.  Krieber  said these  revelations                                                               
showed a  large number  of people  in the  state was  not legally                                                               
able to  operate snowmachines.   He gave the examples  of persons                                                               
under the age of 16 and rural  residents who do not drive cars or                                                               
have  Department  of  Motor  Vehicles   (DMV)  offices  at  hand,                                                               
characterizing both groups as ones that will be affected.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  said the  bill was filed  as a  snowmachine driver's                                                               
license  exemption.   He said  the  original bill  adds one  line                                                               
including snowmachines  in the statute  that lists  exemptions to                                                               
driver's license requirements.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 075                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER said the exemption  does not address the other issues                                                               
such as  the use of  ATVs, airplanes, and boats.   He said  if an                                                               
exemption is not  listed, then it is a requirement.   He gave the                                                               
examples  of motorized  wheelchairs and  the  IT [a  new form  of                                                               
motorized, personal  transportation] that  would not  be exempted                                                               
from  the  driver's license  requirement.    He said  instead  of                                                               
listing all  of the exemptions,  a proposed  committee substitute                                                               
(CS) was submitted for the committee's consideration.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER said  the proposed CS would eliminate the  need for a                                                               
driver's  license for  any type  of motor  vehicle that  would be                                                               
operated on  any area other  than a highway.   He alluded  to the                                                               
definition of "highway" in AS 28.40.100, which reads:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (11) "highway"  means the entire width  between the boundary                                                               
     lines of every  way that is publicly maintained  when a part                                                               
     of  it is  open  to  the public  for  purposes of  vehicular                                                               
     travel, including  but not limited  to every street  and the                                                               
     Alaska state  marine highway system  but not  vehicular ways                                                               
     or areas;                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He said if  the committee wished to change the  word "highway" to                                                               
"roadway" - the road surface -  he had an amendment prepared that                                                               
would allow  the use of  off-road vehicles alongside  the highway                                                               
without a  driver's license.   He clarified that the  current law                                                               
prevents  the  use of  [motorized  vehicles]  alongside the  road                                                               
within right-of-way boundaries without a driver's license.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 113                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN moved  to adopt the proposed  CS, version 22-                                                               
LS1448\C, Ford,  2/12/02, as the  working document.   There being                                                               
no objection, Version C was before the committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 118                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WILSON  moved   to   adopt  the   aforementioned                                                               
amendment  [amendment   1],  changing   the  word   "highway"  to                                                               
"roadway" on page 1, line 5, of Version C.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING said he understood  the intent behind the amendment                                                               
was to  allow "vehicular use  along roadways without  requiring a                                                               
license."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 125                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING asked if there  were any objections to the adopting                                                               
the amendment.  There being none,  [Amendment 1] to Version C was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 135                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  mentioned  watercraft,  other  ATVs,  and                                                               
aircraft.   He asked  if those vehicles  would be  included under                                                               
the driver's license requirements.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER said  they would  be included  in the  definition of                                                               
"motor vehicles."   He added  that the  way Version C  is drafted                                                               
with the amendment,  to operate any type of motor  vehicle off of                                                               
the road surface would not require a driver's license.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN  asked  if  there would  be  any  age  limit                                                               
[imposed  on the  use  of  a motorized  vehicle].   He  expressed                                                               
concern that parents should not  allow very young children to use                                                               
dangerous machinery.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 170                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING said  that he was going to bring  that issue before                                                               
the  committee.   He said  it was  his personal  opinion that  it                                                               
should  be a  matter of  parental  guidance and  control, but  he                                                               
added that the  committee could address an age limit  in the bill                                                               
if it so wished.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 173                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked what the  bill would cover.  She said                                                               
in her area, the town has no more  than 12 miles of road.  Beyond                                                               
the  12 miles  of road  there are  logging roads.   She  asked if                                                               
children under  the age of  16 would  need to have  their parents                                                               
drive them out  to these logging roads and pick  them up in order                                                               
for them to use their off-road vehicles under the legislation.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER said that if  they were public lands, the legislation                                                               
would  lift  the  driver's   license  requirement  alongside  the                                                               
roadway.  If vehicles were to  be operated on the road surface, a                                                               
driver's license would be required.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 193                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH  said that  until there are  large amounts                                                               
of public  complaint about  underage drivers on  the road,  it is                                                               
"not a problem"  and it need not be discussed.   He said, "Nobody                                                               
has complained yet."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 200                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said  Alaska has many families  that live an                                                               
outdoor lifestyle.   She said a  great deal of parents  take time                                                               
to teach  their children the proper  use of machinery.   She said                                                               
she knew many  children that were better at handling  some of the                                                               
vehicles mentioned  than a number of  adults.  She said  that the                                                               
use of [snowmachines  and ATVs] is a tradition in  the state, and                                                               
that  parents should  be  given the  responsibility  to make  the                                                               
decision of when  their children are old enough  to operate them.                                                               
She concurred with Representative  Kookesh's assertion that since                                                               
there has  not been an outcry  from the public on  the matter, it                                                               
is not a large problem.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH posited that  snowmachines and ATVs can be                                                               
as expensive  as [cars].  He  said that parents are  very careful                                                               
to make sure that such an expensive investment is not misused.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN  said that  his  son  once had  an  off-road                                                               
motorcycle and  he did  not "think  for a  minute that  he wasn't                                                               
crazy with it."   He said he  was not naive enough  to think that                                                               
all kids are using equipment in a responsible manner.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER said that the  bill should have a negative                                                               
fiscal note  due to the  fact that a  "roving DMV" would  be very                                                               
expensive.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 266                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JIM JANSEN (ph)  testified via teleconference.  He  said that his                                                               
20-year-old son  has epilepsy and is  not able to get  a driver's                                                               
license.   His son's favorite  recreation is  riding snowmachines                                                               
with his family.  Mr. Jansen  said that he and his family usually                                                               
ride  in the  mountains  off  of the  road  and  rarely even  see                                                               
others.   He said he  could not  see how licensing  would provide                                                               
any more safety in  his son's case.  He said he  did not think it                                                               
right to require  his son to be  an outlaw in order  to enjoy his                                                               
favorite  pastime.    Mr. Jansen  said  he  believes  snowmachine                                                               
riding is a great family outdoor activity and a great sport.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 300                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NANCY  HILLSTRAND testified  via teleconference.   She  said that                                                               
she was  looking at  the issue as  one of safety.   She  said the                                                               
bill was something that could  be transformed into an educational                                                               
opportunity.   Ms.  Hillstrand told  of an  accident she  endured                                                               
because of "two kids on a  snowmobile that were going probably at                                                               
least 80  miles an hour."   She said they  are lucky to  be alive                                                               
because she "could have easily creamed them."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. HILLSTRAND  said this is  a common occurrence  because people                                                               
come from the sides  of the road, out onto the  road in order get                                                               
to the  other side  or because it  is faster on  the side  of the                                                               
road.  She  agreed that parents should be  responsible, but asked                                                               
if that was  always the case.  She proposed  a certificate system                                                               
tied in  with education about safety,  trespassing, and vandalism                                                               
issues.   She  gave examples  of stories  in the  Anchorage Daily                                                             
News where snowmachines  were involved in mishaps.   She said the                                                             
bill  could be  used  for "something  good"  [such as  education]                                                               
instead of  "just a  fuzzy feeling"  of providing  a recreational                                                               
opportunity to the  people.  She said the bill  should be used as                                                               
an opportunity and "a tool."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 341                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK referred  to  a bill  recently passed  that                                                               
required  the  collection  of  a fee  upon  the  registration  of                                                               
snowmachines.    The  monies  go to  the  Department  of  Natural                                                               
Resources  and  are  then disbursed  as  grants  to  individuals,                                                               
groups, and nonprofit agencies in  order to mark and groom trails                                                               
and to  provide education.  She  said a group in  the Matanuska -                                                               
Susitna area  put on a  four-hour safety course and  sold helmets                                                               
for $25.  She said that  great strides are being made with regard                                                               
to  the  issue  of  safety   education  in  the  many  facets  of                                                               
snowmachining.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  said that  Version C is  not a  safety bill                                                               
but rather a question of "who is legal and who isn't."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 388                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER  said that  she saw two  different classes                                                               
of snowmachine users in the state.   She said many users in urban                                                               
Alaska  use  snowmachines  for  sport.     She  said  most  rural                                                               
snowmachine  users   utilize  them  for  transportation   and  in                                                               
hunting.     Representative   Kapsner  pointed   out  that   many                                                               
municipalities have  codes for ATVs and  how they are to  be used                                                               
on  roads.    She  advised  Nancy Hillstrand  to  talk  with  her                                                               
assemblymen  about snowmachines  on the  road.   She said  that a                                                               
statewide approach  might not be  a wise approach because  of the                                                               
differing kinds of use.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 405                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  said snowmachine  use in  the right-of-way                                                               
is  illegal  by  City  of  Homer  City  Kenai  Peninsula  Borough                                                               
ordinance.   He said that  whether the riders of  the snowmachine                                                               
are above or below 16, riding on the road is illegal.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER added that  the school district could also                                                               
be a good conduit of information as  to what is legal and what is                                                               
illegal with regard to snowmachine and ATV use.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 429                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JACK    CAMPBELL,   Mat-Su    Motor   Mushers,    testified   via                                                               
teleconference.     He  said  the  existing   law  is  "extremely                                                               
inapplicable"  to   off-road  vehicles  and  that   it  was  also                                                               
unenforceable.   He  said there  is room  for improvement  in the                                                               
area  of safety  for off-road  vehicle  operation.   He said  the                                                               
existing law  will cause a  great reduction in  family recreation                                                               
if enforced.  He supported the bill.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 441                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  WEBER testified  via  teleconference that,  "Snowmachines                                                               
and cars don't mix."   Crossing roadways and driveways requires a                                                               
driver's license  under existing  law.  He  said under  the bill,                                                               
roadways and  driveways must  be crossed  - "which  constitutes a                                                               
driver's license."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. WEBBER  asked, "What  constitutes an  off-road vehicle?"   He                                                               
asked if he could drive  his four-wheel-drive truck down the side                                                               
of the  road without a driver's  license under the new  bill.  He                                                               
said  the  state differentiates  between  urban  and rural  areas                                                               
regarding auto  insurance.  He  asked why  the same could  not be                                                               
done  for   "snowmachines  and  the  requirements   there."    He                                                               
suggested  tying   a  driver's   license  requirement   to  where                                                               
automobile  insurance  is  required.   [He  referred  to  13  AAC                                                               
02.487.   DRIVING ON SIDEWALK,  and 13 AAC  02.430. APPLICABILITY                                                               
OF  REGULATIONS; PARENTAL  RESPONSIBILITY, subsection  (b).]   He                                                               
said snowmachines and cars need to be kept separate.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 464                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  said it  was brought to  his attention  that there                                                               
are existing  regulations that  permit snowmachines  and off-road                                                               
vehicles to cross roads and highways.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KRIEBER   cited  13  AAC   02.455  and  said   it  addresses                                                               
snowmachine use and  special rules for off-highway  vehicles.  He                                                               
said  the   particular  regulation  is  entitled   "OPERATION  ON                                                               
HIGHWAYS  AND OTHER  LOCATIONS".   He said  there are  details of                                                               
where  crossings  can  be  made.     Mr.  Krieber  surmised  that                                                               
crossings of roadways are allowed for off-road vehicles.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 476                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NANCY  WEBB,  Assembly   Member,  Fairbanks  Norhthstar  Borough,                                                               
testified via teleconference.  She said  there is a high level of                                                               
concern  in the  Fairbanks area,  and she  said that  concern was                                                               
part of  the reason the "Winter  Transportation Study" originated                                                               
there.     She  said  she   could  understand  how   the  license                                                               
requirement would  seem absurd to  rural residents, but  she said                                                               
she  had concerns  about unsupervised  children using  high-speed                                                               
motor vehicles.  She said it is  a risk to people other than just                                                               
the  children themselves  such as  trail  users.   Ms. Webb  said                                                               
people  are  beginning  to  resent  snowmachine  use  because  of                                                               
youth's  "dangerous  antics,"   trespassing  through  yards,  and                                                               
"becoming  a  tremendous annoyance."    Ms.  Webb said  she  only                                                               
thought  that  it was  a  few,  giving a  bad  name  to the  many                                                               
snowmachine riders who are also her constituents.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WEBB asked  that the  legislature "add  some tool"  to their                                                               
removal of the  license requirement that would send  a message to                                                               
the  children who  are causing  the problem,  and their  parents.                                                               
She  proposed  confiscating  a  vehicle until  the  end  of  "the                                                               
season."   She also offered that  it may be necessary  to forfeit                                                               
vehicles after repeated offenses.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 511                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER  asked what was prohibiting  the Fairbanks                                                               
assembly from addressing the issue at the local level.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. WEBB said that she was  told by the troopers that boroughwide                                                               
standards would  have to be  in place to implement  her penalties                                                               
for  infraction.   She said  that the  legislature would  have to                                                               
give the borough authority to enforce a boroughwide standard.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER  said that  she could sympathize  with Ms.                                                               
Webb's concerns but  added that in rural  Alaska, children become                                                               
adults very quickly.  She said  life in rural Alaska is like that                                                               
on many  farms where children  must help  with the work  of daily                                                               
life and  that this work  often requires the use  of snowmachines                                                               
and like  vehicles.  She said  that young people in  rural Alaska                                                               
should not be penalized for "a few people in urban Alaska."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WEBB  said that  there are responsible  youth riders  [in the                                                               
Fairbanks area], and that only a few people are causing trouble.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 532                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOOKESH  said  Ms.  Webb's  concerns  sound  like                                                               
another matter  than the  one being  addressed by  the bill.   He                                                               
said  that he  was  for  a legislative  process  that would  give                                                               
municipalities the power to act, but not in this legislation.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 542                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARK   MEW,   Deputy    Chief,   Anchorage   Police   Department,                                                               
Municipality  of Anchorage,  testified  via  teleconference.   He                                                               
said the  issue sounds like more  of a rural issue  than an urban                                                               
issue.    Anchorage  has  a local  ordinance  that  prevents  the                                                               
operation of  snowmachines and other off-road  vehicles on roads.                                                               
He said that the Anchorage  Police Department can already impound                                                               
the  machines and  cite  users for  offenses  other than  driving                                                               
without a license.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MEW said  he understands  the situation  in rural  Alaska is                                                               
different  from  the  one  in Anchorage,  but  he  expressed  his                                                               
concern  about  making a  statement  that  it  is all  right  for                                                               
children  to  operate this  type  of  equipment with  no  further                                                               
guidance or control.  He said  that he would not bank on parental                                                               
guidance to  keep children  safe when they  are riding  a vehicle                                                               
capable of speeds  in excess of 80  miles per hour.   He said the                                                               
issue should be looked at  beyond just the scope of snowmachines,                                                               
and he  asked that all  recreational vehicles be considered.   He                                                               
suggested something  akin to  a hunter  safety course  that would                                                               
give them proper  safety training.  He said there  will be tragic                                                               
results if "we just throw open the doors on this issue."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 577                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH pointed out  that there are 85 communities                                                               
in rural  Alaska without any  form of  law enforcement.   He said                                                               
there should be a statewide  police presence before there is talk                                                               
of statewide enforcement issues.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 594                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-3, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
STAN  JUSTICE  testified via  teleconference.    He said  he  had                                                               
recently helped  in recovering the  bodies of a  13-year-old girl                                                               
and  her  father after  they  had  been  killed by  a  collapsing                                                               
cornice above Summit Lake.  He said  HB 397 is "a simple fix to a                                                               
complex problem, and  it may make matters much worse."   The last                                                               
six years  have seen a dramatic  rise in the rate  of snowmachine                                                               
accidents.  He said that the  rate of snowmachine deaths has gone                                                               
up from 13  in 1996, to 32  last year.  Injuries are  on the rise                                                               
as well.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUSTICE  said that  there are snowmachines  in many  areas of                                                               
Fairbanks.   He  said  that many  snowmachine  drivers have  lost                                                               
their driver's  licenses for  drinking and  driving.   They drive                                                               
their  snowmachines because  they know  there is  no enforcement.                                                               
He said  three of  last year's  snowmachine deaths  were children                                                               
less than 15 years of age.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JUSTICE  called for  strong  snowmachine  laws such  as  age                                                               
limits, speed  limits, restrictions on  where they can go,  a way                                                               
to identify  both machine and  rider, as  well as a  police force                                                               
capable of  enforcing those laws.   He said if the  Bush does not                                                               
want  such laws,  that the  legislature  should write  exemptions                                                               
like  the  license  plate  exemption.    Mr.  Justice  asked  the                                                               
committee   to  go   back  to   the  drawing   board  and   write                                                               
comprehensive snowmachine  legislation.  He characterized  HB 397                                                               
as  "throwing the  baby  out with  the bathwater."    He said  to                                                               
remove the age limit in the  face of such high death and accident                                                               
rates was irresponsible.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 567                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  asked Mr.  Justice if  he believed  no one                                                               
under 16 should be able to operate a snowmachine.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUSTICE said that he  thought the legislature should consider                                                               
what to do about the situation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI asked  what  percentage of  the number  of                                                               
deaths Mr. Justice had mentioned  earlier were children under the                                                               
age of 16.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUSTICE said  that he only had the figure  of the three under                                                               
the age of 15 but was not sure of the others.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 552                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROGER BURNS  testified via teleconference.   He characterized the                                                               
bill as a good thing and added  that the amendments clean it up a                                                               
great  deal.   This  bill would  "restore the  status  quo."   He                                                               
agreed that there are a  lot of snowmachine related problems that                                                               
need to be addressed,  but he said this bill is  not the place to                                                               
do it.   The bill does not close the  door on future legislation.                                                               
He characterized  the bill  as a "necessary  first step"  so that                                                               
snowmobilers, airplane  pilots, and wheelchair operators  are not                                                               
turned into outlaws.  He gave his support to the bill.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 526                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PAT  CARLSON   testified  via  teleconference.     He  said  that                                                               
snowmachines  in Kodiak  were  not  as much  a  problem as  four-                                                               
wheelers.   He said this bill  would be good in  concert with the                                                               
legislature's  giving municipalities  the  abilities to  license,                                                               
control,  and  register  these  vehicles  through  the  ordinance                                                               
process.   He said  that there are  different situations  in both                                                               
rural  and urban  Alaska, and  that these  areas should  have the                                                               
flexibility  to deal  with their  unique  problems.   He said  he                                                               
would like to participate in the bill's moving forward.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 507                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARY  MARSHBURN,  Director,  Division of  Motor  Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department of Administration, testified  via teleconference.  She                                                               
said there  is a law  on the  books requiring a  driver's license                                                               
for all  of the  off-road vehicles that  had been  mentioned, but                                                               
she added that  there had not been any overt  action on behalf of                                                               
the division  or the state  to require  a driver's license.   She                                                               
said that the  law has evolved over the past  30 years, and today                                                               
there  is  a "circumstance"  on  the  books without  the  state's                                                               
having acted to bring it about.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN said  that the  division  recognizes an  "off-road                                                               
vehicle  uniqueness"   for  Alaska;  off-road  vehicles   form  a                                                               
necessary part of everyday life in  a large portion of the state.                                                               
She said that  in much of the state, "there  is no public safety;                                                               
there is  no DMV, even with  a licensing requirement."   She said                                                               
that  her division  is also  mandated to  be concerned  about the                                                               
safety of  the driving public.   Speaking to that, the  bill, and                                                               
the proposed CS, she said  there is a classification for vehicles                                                               
that  are  defined as  off-road  vehicles.    She said  that  the                                                               
equipment is  different from that of  "traditional road vehicles"                                                               
and that  they do not  meet federal standards for  road vehicles.                                                               
The off-road  vehicles are not  permitted to travel  roads except                                                               
in special circumstances  - most of them related  to crossing the                                                               
road.  She  said local jurisdictions can, and  do, allow off-road                                                               
vehicles  to travel  on the  roads  of that  jurisdiction.   That                                                               
provision leaves it to the municipality to determine what to do.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN said  that once  a vehicle  enters the  roadway it                                                               
must comply  with the  rules of  the road.   The operator  can be                                                               
cited  for noncompliance  with  the rules  of  the road,  whether                                                               
licensed or not.   She said these things would  not change if the                                                               
bill passes.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 464                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN said  she had a bit of hesitation  with some of the                                                               
language  in  the proposed  CS,  specifically  with [lines  5-6],                                                               
removing  "VEHICULAR WAY  OR AREA,  OR OTHER  PUBLIC PROPERTY  IN                                                               
THIS  STATE".   She said  this  language might  open the  overall                                                               
driver  licensing  law to  weakening.    She said  removing  that                                                               
language might  lend itself  to a situation  in which  a citation                                                               
for a  violation in a "Sears  parking lot" or on  public property                                                               
would not be held up in  court because a driver's license was not                                                               
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 447                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN said  she  would like  the  opportunity for  legal                                                               
staff  to  look   at  the  proposed  CS  because   she  had  some                                                               
reservations about  it.  She  said the  bill itself -  before the                                                               
proposed CS  - was a  "cleaner way"  to deal with  the situation.                                                               
She said the original bill  would simply exempt off-road vehicles                                                               
from  the driver  licensing law.    She asked  that all  off-road                                                               
vehicles be  treated consistently,  if that was  the route  to be                                                               
taken by the committee.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 436                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN brought up the  issue of off-road safety education.                                                               
She characterized  it as a  very valid  issue and called  for its                                                               
discussion and  consideration.   She said a  number of  states do                                                               
not  regulate or  license snowmachines.   Some  states require  a                                                               
driver's license,  but no state requires  a "snowmobile license."                                                               
She said  some states  have safety  education programs  for young                                                               
operators of snowmachines.  She  said that safety education might                                                               
be a topic  worthy of more information and  discussion "away from                                                               
this bill."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 412                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MARK WILKE,  Treasurer, Juneau Snowmobile Club,  testified before                                                               
the committee.   He  had his son  Dexter with him.   He  told the                                                               
committee that  his son  had been snowmachining  since he  was 11                                                               
and  that he  was always  very safe.   Mr.  Wilke said  that snow                                                               
machining allows  him to  share a  great deal with  his son.   It                                                               
allows them  to do something together  in the outdoors.   He said                                                               
the bill would allow them do enjoy their pastime legally.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKE  said that he  agreed that the  safety issue was  a big                                                               
problem in  the state.   He said that  too many people  are being                                                               
killed  -  mostly  by  avalanches.     He  proposed  raising  the                                                               
snowmobile registration fees by $10  and using that money to fund                                                               
a  comprehensive   snowmobile  safety  and   avalanche  education                                                               
program.   He suggested that  the monies could be  transferred to                                                               
the Division  of Parks  and Outdoor Recreation  so that  it could                                                               
hire  a  full-time  snowmachine  safety person.    He  said  most                                                               
snowmachine  users in  the state  that he  had talked  to are  in                                                               
support of such a fee.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 381                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  asked  if  he   would  like  to  see  the                                                               
education program as a voluntary or mandatory one.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WILKE  said  that  the thinking  among  snowmobilers  is  it                                                               
probably should be  voluntary.  He said that  for young children,                                                               
however education should be mandatory.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 364                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOOKESH asked  Mr. Wilke  how he  would implement                                                               
such a  mandatory program in  rural Alaska.   He said  the safety                                                               
concerns are  legitimate and  should be  addressed, but  he added                                                               
that this is not a safety bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKE said  he believed the program should be  carried out in                                                               
the  schools.   He gave  the example  of hunter  safety education                                                               
program he went through as a youth in Oregon.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked Mr. Wilke  if he thought it could be                                                               
done without making it mandatory.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKE  said that he  would like  to see it  mandatory because                                                               
snowmachines are  taking a  great deal of  "negative press."   He                                                               
said making  it mandatory  might reduce some  of the  pressure on                                                               
snowmachine users.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said he would  support a mandatory program                                                               
for "sports people."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK told the committee  about a pamphlet offered                                                               
by the  state, "Common Sense  About Snowmobiling," and  said that                                                               
it was  available at  State Trooper  posts throughout  the state.                                                               
She  said  that  snowmachine manufacturers  also  provide  safety                                                               
information.   She said snowmachining  is undergoing a  period of                                                               
increased popularity throughout  the state.  She  said that there                                                               
are  many uses  for snowmachines  throughout the  state including                                                               
racing, sport  use, pleasure and recreation,  and transportation.                                                               
She agreed with  Representative Kookesh and said that  this is an                                                               
issue of law.  She said  the bill should be concerned with making                                                               
sure  that  people are  not  breaking  the  law.   She  suggested                                                               
dealing  with safety  issues  at another  time  with a  different                                                               
piece of legislation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILKE said he supports the bill very much.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 299                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JIM   STRATTON,  Director,   Division   of   Parks  and   Outdoor                                                               
Recreation,  Department of  Natural  Resources, testified  before                                                               
the  committee.   He  said  the  division  is interested  in  the                                                               
educational  opportunities brought  forward  by the  legislation.                                                               
He said the  division instituted a program  called the Snowmobile                                                               
Trails Advisory  Committee (SnoTRAC)  - of which  Mr. Wilke  is a                                                               
member  -  from   the  monies  that  were  taken   from  the  fee                                                               
Representative  Masek had  talked  about earlier.    He said  one                                                               
thing that  came from the  "DOT Winter Transportation  Study" was                                                               
other rules and  regulations.  He said that  the department asked                                                               
if the SnoTRAC  board would look at all of  those issues and find                                                               
out where  snowmachine users  stood on them.   He  said education                                                               
was a big issue in that regard.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 280                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STRATTON said that whether  it is mandatory versus voluntary,                                                               
age  requirements,  and  urban-versus-rural regulations  are  all                                                               
things that must be grappled with  by the SnoTRAC board.  He said                                                               
the division is waiting for  that process to bring some consensus                                                               
from the  snowmobile community statewide,  and that  the division                                                               
would play  a role in delivering  an education program.   He said                                                               
there  are  great  education  programs  for  snowmachine  use  in                                                               
existence  at the  present  time.   He gave  the  example of  the                                                               
Fairbanks Police  Department's program that is  delivered through                                                               
the school  system.  He  said he envisions the  department's role                                                               
as  being the  "maypole" around  which good  ideas can  be shared                                                               
with the rest of the state.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 257                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK  asked Mr.  Stratton  if  he supported  the                                                               
proposed CS.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. STRATTON said  that he had no problem with  the original bill                                                               
but  said he  had some  reservations  about the  language in  the                                                               
proposed CS.   He said  specifying that  someone does not  need a                                                               
driver's license to  operate an off-highway vehicle  is a cleaner                                                               
way to  approach the problem,  but he  said there would  still be                                                               
concerns about the under-16 riders.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 228                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  McBRIDE testified  via teleconference.   He  said he  is an                                                               
assistant scoutmaster for  a Boy Scout troop in Eagle  River.  He                                                               
said a  large part of  his scout program is  teaching responsible                                                               
use of  the outdoors.   Within  this is  snowmachining.   He said                                                               
that his group  takes trips on snowmachines with an  age limit of                                                               
13 or older.   All involved in the trip -  both adults and scouts                                                               
-  are  required to  attend  a  safety  training course  at  Fort                                                               
Richardson.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. McBRIDE  said that  he was  in the  process of  planning this                                                               
year's trip when  the licensing requirement came to  light.  This                                                               
year,  those  scouts  without  a driver's  license  will  not  be                                                               
allowed to go.   He said the licensing  requirement is needlessly                                                               
restricting opportunities.   He said he was in  strong support of                                                               
the bill as well as issue-specific solutions, such as training.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 162                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  moved to  report  CSHB  397, version  22-                                                               
LS1448\C,  Ford,  2/12/02,  as  amended, out  of  committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations and a zero  fiscal note.  He said that                                                               
there had been  a lot of good  dialogue about the bill.   He said                                                               
he  did  not feel  that  many  of  the  safety issues  should  be                                                               
addressed  by the  bill,  and  holding the  bill  up  to make  it                                                               
resolve  some of  them would  be  wrong.   He said  the bill  was                                                               
intended to "make people legal."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 142                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK referred  to line 5, page 1  of the proposed                                                               
CS, where the committee had  changed "highway" to "roadway".  She                                                               
asked what would  happen if "roadway" were put  in and "vehicular                                                               
way or area" were kept in.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 125                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  said he thought  it a great  idea and said  it would                                                               
serve to  address many  of DMV's  concerns.   He said  the public                                                               
property issue was  the driving force behind the  proposed CS and                                                               
that it would still be deleted from the language.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 119                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI  withdrew his  motion to move  the proposed                                                               
CS out of committee.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 111                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion  to move Amendment 2, on lines                                                               
5-6, to  remove the two  [brackets] and  add back into  the bill,                                                               
"vehicular way or area, or other public property in this state".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOHRING  asked if it  was Representative Masek's  intent to                                                               
extract "vehicular way or area" and not the entire portion.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said that "or  other public property in this                                                               
state" could be left out.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER said the committee  was "doing double negatives," and                                                               
that he wanted  to make it clear that "we  are exempting the need                                                               
for a  driver's license  requirement from  public property."   He                                                               
clarified that  Amendment 2  would remove the  bracket on  line 5                                                               
after  "roadway"  -   Amendment  1  -  which   would  then  leave                                                               
"vehicular way  or area"  and then  place a  bracket on  line six                                                               
after the  comma following the word  "area".  Deleted out  of the                                                               
existing law would be "or other public property in this state".                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 054                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  expressed  his  concern  that  all  other                                                               
vehicles be included "except for cars and et cetera, et cetera."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KRIEBER  said that the  definition of motor  vehicle includes                                                               
all of the things Representative Scalzi had discussed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 047                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  KOHRING  asked  if  there   were  any  objections  to  the                                                               
amendment, there being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 041                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  moved to  report  CSHB  397, version  22-                                                               
LS1448\C,  Ford,  2/12/02,  as  amended, out  of  committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations and a zero fiscal note.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  objection, CSHB  397(TRA) was  moved out  of the                                                               
House Transportation Standing Committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Transportation Standing  Committee meeting was adjourned  at 2:45                                                               
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects